Cpp and Irrev Consent To Deduct and Pay An Insurer a One Time Retroactive CPP Payment to Insurer Form

#1

I just received a Irrevocable Consent To Deduct and Pay Insurer Form from Great West Life. I got this after waiting for 4 months with no payment from them- for no reason, but suddenly after I mentioned I had applied for CPP disability (did not for almost 2 years- not told I have to- actually prev. agent I dealt with asked a year ago if I did and said if I do, they are entitled to reduce their payment to me…

The form mentioned above says if I do not want to give my consent to Service Canada to pay a one time retroactive payment, do not sign this form and advise them…

I had been extremely co-operative,keeping them advised immed of all details of meds, appointments etc…but after now twice having to beg for reasons why payments stop for no reason -this last time for almost 4 months… I am not feeling so co operative any more…

Should I sign this? or not

#2

SORRY - NOT SURE WHY THIS GOT BOLDED - tried to edit it - should not respond late at night.

Things I learned the hard way:
I hear your frustration (you should be able to get your questions answered! - not good! but just be careful!!! in how you vent your understandable anger/frustration)
We all have “legal” contracts between our employer on behalf of their employees and the insurer or if you have an individual policy between you and the insurer. That contract outlines the coverage. I have a list in my written contract. As David mentioned earlier, each company will negotiate an agreement with the insurer (or with a personal policy) that can be the high version with lots of benefits etc, somewhere in-between or the low end version with higher deductions.

**I am sure you are aware of how important it is to read and understand the contract you have signed up for! Unfortunately, those contracts can be quite confusing thus people often seek legal advice.
This may be different for unionized and other insurers but my contract states that if I receive extra income while on LTD via a variety of sources including CPP-D, they will reduce what they give me by that amount. I may not like it but it is right in my legal contract so there is no sense for me getting upset or losing sleep over it - that is the agreement. With our insurer, they actually encourage you to apply for CPP-D and sign a consent so the insurer is notified re: amount etc - you don’t have to but it will not bode well for you. Again this is how my insurance agreement works. Sometimes helping the insurer out with the monthly payments (via CPP-Disability) can sometimes support an extended coverage. However, if an insurer acts in bad faith - say your contract indicates that you are to get a payment per month at a set amount starting on a certain date (again read the fine print around this) and the contract also outlines that you will be notified if there are any changes (thinking of your example of waiting 4 months - something is very wrong here) - so if the insurer is not honouring their legal contract with you - you want to get clarification - is it possible you misunderstood something or they are in the wrong and can be potentially sued - so you should be able to find out why your contract seems to be breached (read them your contract) and if you don’t get a satisfactory answer that is when I would be seeing a lawyer or even legal counselling earlier to help you understand your contract and rights. Understanding this complicated process is very important. If they are not responding to you, they will if a lawyer gets involved. It can save a lot of grief and anger because you know where you stand.

Sorry for being long winded and maybe repetitive - hope some of this info helps you, Take care!

#3

My husband did not sign the Irrevocable form and GWL has reduced his monthly benefit in half. You do not have to sign the Irrevocable Consent but they likely will reduce your benefit by aprox 950.00 or so.

If you can handle up to 6 months of reduced benefits then don’t sign the forms. Our Great West policy does not require that my husband apply for CPP-D-some GWL policies do have a specific provision that you must apply and appeal if requested by GWL.

I am not aware of any policy that requires you to sign an irrevocable form (but may be in some Union contracts)

Request a complete copy of your claim file via email or fax. Also ask your employer and GWL for a complete copy of the Master policy. If you need the email just ask and I will message you.

Likely GWL had you sign a reimbursement agreement. In my husbands “imposed” reimbursement agreement from GWL :
it specifically states that for applying For CPP-D they will continue to pay full benefits and he has 30 days to submit any over payment after receiving it…

It is not bad faith on your part to not sign the forms. It would be bad faith if you did not notify them of any over payment.

You can sign the irrevocable and GWL can cut you off claim the next day.

My husband is claiming against GWL in court and the unwarranted reduction of his benefits is part of what we are asking the court to decide. The sad part is we are living on soup and crackers due to the loss of benefits but we feel we would regret it if we signed the forms.

Good Luck!

Asking for your claim file maybe helpful if you need to appeal a cpp-d denial. It may also allow you to see why GWL took so long to initially pay you. Your governing Master policy will let you know your obligations and the Insurers.
Just ask politely-it is reasonable for you to have copies of this information

#4

Links to two other discussions on this issue

#5

:slight_smile: I really don’t think the case managers are aware of the specific rules that govern each contract. They just go by what they say is “standard policy”

There is no standard contract-thats why you need a copy of yours.

#6

On a different note: Wow, I don’t know why my initial response ended up being bolded - was not the intent - will have to try and correct that.
In response to your comment. I think there is a big difference in insurance companies and contracts. The previous info I mentioned is true to our insurance and contract. We have a benefit booklet. (non-union) outlining all the details and I was sent a letter further outlining the process for LTD. This booklet is the agreement set out with the insurance company so the employees of the insurance company (an me) need to know what is in that agreement so they can direct this legal process that follows the contract. However, I had a new insurance employee who apparently was making mistakes which caused a lot of initial grief for me. However, you are right with regard to some aspects in my situation. What I also realized is that they have different people responsible for small chunks of the process and this is very boundaried so if you ask them about another aspect of the process they usually can’t tell you. I have a feeling this is done on purpose. It was interesting, I had at least 3 people managing different aspects of my initial application. For example, the telephone interviewer - that is all she does & has to get thru a number of standard questions which I could tell she was reading off.
My problem is that I was unfamiliar with all of this process - was not planning on becoming chronically ill. I was very ill (still am but more informed) when all this info had to be reviewed and my application sent in I did not go over all the fine print until recently - don’t think I am alone with that. Should have got a lawyer earlier but had no money. The bottom line is that insurance companies are obligated to follow the agreement (whether their employees are aware or not) and if they don’t, they can be sued - it is a legal contract. The insurance. co. don’t want to fork out any more money than they have to.
Sorry for the ramble …

#7

Good reaponse bot a ramble all good info

#8

The benefit booklet is a summary only-and will advise if there is any discrepancy between the benefit booklet and the governing contract-the governing contract applies.

That is why you should request the Master policy. You just want to know all the obligations between you and your Insurer. That is very reasonable.

You are so right that many do not read the benefit book-most have lost a copy of it. Insurers love that!!!

#9

In our specific case my spouse only has 5 years max of GWL LTD, so we do not want to sign the irrevocable because if his application for CPP-D is denied we want the option to have legal representation. If GWL gets the retro payment irrevocably they will have no motivation to negotiate legal representation for CPP appeals.

I personally never like to sign any agreement unless I am under contract to do so or it is mutually beneficial.

#10

Hi alloys
Thanks for that info. I have heard others talking about the Master copy but did not know anything about it. so that is for all insurance companies - I am in Ontario - I thought all the info we needed was in the benefit book and the letter they sent me. Now I feel really naive. Are there any “red bells” sent off if you request this copy - call me paranoid.

#11

Sorry about the wrong spelling in your name - my computer wants to auto correct to the wrong name - tried it again - same thing but you know who you are.

#12

:slight_smile: My name is Lori. You can ask for a copy from your employer or Insurer (or both). This is my husbands 3rd claim with GWL and we only requested it on the 3rd claim when GWL started to take an active interest in his claim (rehab)

I wish I had requested before but did not want to cause any extra attention. That was a mistake on my part.
If you go to work you want to know your duties and the workplace rules.
If you are on a long term claim or headed into that direction then you want to know the rules.

Always if you ask for a copy and they ask why tell them you read off the internet or a friend advised you to request.

#13

I am in the process of writing a long online article discussing the pros / cons of sign or not to sign the Irrevocable Direction to Pay. It really boils down to fact that in most cases if you don’t sign it, they can estimate and deduct the CPP payment from your ongoing LTD benefits. So, if you don’t want that to happen, the you usually have to sign the direction to pay form. The problem is, as has been mentioned above, if you sign the direction to pay form, they can terminate you LTD the next day and they still gel all your CPP back pay. There is a reason they have made the form “irrevocable”. Insurers want to get these forms in place BEFORE the two year mark so if they do cut off payments, they are still guaranteed to get the CPPD reimbursement even if it happens long after the LTD termination date.

David Brannen

Disability Lawyer with Resolute Legal

The response posted above is based on the limited factual information made available and is not intended as a full and complete response to the question. The only reliabile manner to obtain complete and adequate legal advice is to consult with a lawyer, fully explain your situation, and allow the lawyer enough time to research the applicable law and facts required to give an adequate opinion. The basic information provided above is intended as a public service only, a full one-on-one discussion with a lawyer should be done before taking any any action. The information posted on this forum is available to the viewing public and is not intended to create a lawyer client relationship with any person. If you want one-on-one advice, please click here to request a free consultation or call toll free 1-877-282-5188 to speak with a member with our disability claim support team.

#14

Manulife is pressuring me to apply for CPP disability and sent these forms-so don’t sign them?

#15

My suggestion is to read the thread above. There is no right answer for everyone.